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Some Christians are hypocritical

March 2, 2014

To the editor: With all that has been said regarding the treatment of gay people during the last few months, and in light of the new gay discrimination law in Arizona, I thought it was about time I......

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(43)

Moteman

Mar-08-14 9:52 AM

Bksneeze is wrong. "prevent establishment of a state adopted religion" does mean keep the church/synagogue/mosque/temple/monastery/etc.

The Constitution was written not to control citizens it was written putting restriction on Government. PERIOD! As much BKsneeze thinks there is no such thing as Constitutional police.

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bKnees

Mar-07-14 4:42 PM

I don't agree. "prevent establishment of a state adopted religion" does mean keep the church/synagogue/mosque/temple/monastery/etc., out of the government, so that it does not favor one over another. That's not to say our government officials cannot be good moral men/women whose characters have been molded by their good religious upbringing. It's just that the government must be equal and fair for all citizens - no matter their religious beliefs.

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Hagrid

Mar-07-14 4:29 PM

Not being able to edit posts is a good thing. It keeps those who wish to erase their shameful posts and later claim, "I didn't say that!".

One can always honestly correct true mistakes as meminana did.

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Moteman

Mar-07-14 4:17 PM

Author unknown --- "The phrase 'separation of church and state' is found nowhere in the Constitution and the whole idea of separation of church and state was to prevent the government from interfering in matters of the church and to prevent establishment of a state adopted religion.

For those who are too stupid to understand, it was meant to keep the government out of church...not the church out of government!"

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Moteman

Mar-07-14 8:12 AM

How do you edit a comment when you make a mistake in your post??

You can't, a very big flaw in this forum. You must edit before you click post Comment.

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meminana

Mar-07-14 8:00 AM

How do you edit a comment when you make a mistake in your post??

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meminana

Mar-07-14 7:57 AM

(part 3) I do not know how to edit these comments...I MEANT to say I will NOT harm them etc,etc. Please forgive my error.

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meminana

Mar-07-14 7:54 AM

(cont) Change is Gods business. I will harm them, burn down their homes or refuse them help in times of trouble. I WILL witness to them as God leads me; and continue to pray for them. I also understand their wanting their partners taken care of in times of illness or death. I can only do my part as God leads me and pray for their salvation as I do for others, to find the truth and do their BEST with Gods help to live it.

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meminana

Mar-07-14 7:48 AM

First I see you re from Columbus so I have to wonder why you choose our paper to write to? However, I will answer your comment: First of all, homosexuality IS a sin. You can quit using the Old Testament as the only reference as Paul addressed this sin in the first chapter of Romans. You are not born this way although I have to personally wonder sometimes if a way a person is raised encourages this behavior. Paul says these homosexuals are an abomination to God. It is the same reason God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. If it were a illness He would have healed them. He gave them the chance to redeem themselves even offering Lots daughters to the men of Sodom but they wanted the men instead. He wanted to save them but they turned their backs on Him. It IS a sin. That being said, let me tell you that we are still as Christians to "hate the sin and love the sinner". I have aquaintances that are gay, I cannot change them. They know my beliefs and we respect each other. Change is Go

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Echobravo

Mar-06-14 6:20 PM

Hagrid: My comments were in no way addresed to you, but to rsimpson who wants to debate the bible with someone. As I stated, I do not support gay marriage, however I support the unions for benefit purposes. Many are indeed calling homosexuality a sin. If that's ones belief, so be it. If one is talking sin and knowingly sin they sin. The Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday. Are Sunday worshipers sinners? Not supposed to eat shellfish, but people do. Are they sinners? At some point people have to come to a median. You pray for sinners, not condemn them. God is the final judge period. Because of the decline with morality, we are having these conversations. One thing I will say for all here. It won't change another's mind and there should be a sense of tolerance and letting God decide it.

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RPG0340

Mar-06-14 9:23 AM

ArthurS17, homosexuality is a sin. It just does not say it in Leviticus, it is also one of the 10 Commandments. It is an act of adultery. It should not be legislated that I have to accept and promote a sin.

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RPG0340

Mar-06-14 9:21 AM

ArthurS17, they are troublemakers. They are trying to find enemies to fight against. I think I've mentioned before the homosexual man that insists on using the ladies restroom at the gym. Why would a person do such a thing if it was not looking for trouble, a fight, or at least a spirited argument? I also say they are troublemakers because by and large most people do not care if they get a "civil union certificate" yet they want that "marriage" so that they can get back at all those evil bigot Christians.

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RPG0340

Mar-06-14 9:17 AM

Also Arthur, discrimination is what it is. It's definition is not contingent upon the group being discriminated against.

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RPG0340

Mar-06-14 9:15 AM

ArthurS17, under current AZ law, a person or business CANNOT DENY SERVICES to anyone without the possibility of legal consequences!!! Are you that flipping stupid? DID YOU NOT GO THROUGH SCHOOL AND LEARN ENGLISH!

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arthurs17

Mar-06-14 4:56 AM

lastly, I will say it again, religious rights don't trump human rights. If businesses are allowed to refuse service to gay people, what is next? Businesses refusing to serve divorcess? Adulterers? Anyone that is not of their respective religion? ********children? Interacial couples?, etc. And logistically, how would these laws be enforced? Are we going to ask every patron of their sexual orientation? Are we going to just assume people are gay? What if I go to lunch with my buddy Mike and we hug when we see each other, are we going to be presumed gay and refused service at that particular restaurant because the owner is a homophobe. These laws make logical sense, and they will all probably fail miserably. At least, that's what I hope. Who knows what will actually happen in some of the more backward states in our nation?

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arthurs17

Mar-06-14 4:35 AM

oh and finally another retort for rpg...so you think gay people are troublemakers because they are demanding the same rights as their straight counterparts? wow, you are so on the wrong of history. I bet you thought woman fighting for suffrage were troublemakers too, or that Rosa Parks had no right sit in the front of the bus. Civil rights were fought and won by people much better than yourself. Quit using your own perverse version of reality to condemn gay people. They have done nothing to you.

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arthurs17

Mar-06-14 4:10 AM

and Rsimpson...So you think you have the right to refuse service to anyone, huh? Open up a restaurant and refuse service to a black woman for no good reason and let me know how that goes for you. You will be in direct in violation of a host of laws, as well as probably subjected to well deserved public scrutiny.

And hagrid...maybe you are forgetting about the establishment clause in the 1st amendment. There is the separation between church and state that you so conveniently overlooked and said doesn't exist in our constitution

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arthurs17

Mar-06-14 3:58 AM

not a protected class.

I'm not going to even comment on the new testament voiding the old testament thing, that comment speaks for itself.

for those of you saying i cherry picked for this letter. Yes I did. But I did so to illustrate how some christians are trying to do the same thing by evoking their religious freedom to not serve a gay person, but serving all kinds of other "sinners". If you are going to use the bible to justifty your bigotry, then you must vilify all the sinful acts mentioned in the bible, not just the ones that are convenient to you.

And to the person who called me illogical. Do you even know what that word means? I would love an explanation on how using the bible against Christians in illogical. Yes I am condemning the book. I am using its own antiquated and misrepresented passages to highlight how hypocritical the book and its belief in it is. Illogical would be me using the quotes from the koran to highlight hypocrisy in christianity.

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Hagrid

Mar-05-14 10:37 PM

eb: "Constitution is outdated."

First, WOW. Second, our Constitution has served us well for over 230 years, and is still the law of the land, despite what you and our Marxist president want.

"Face it, there is a separation of church and state."

Not by our Constitution. Only by those wishing to destroy what the great document built. Check for yourself. They put it right at the top of the list.

"STOP trying to make the STATE enforce your religious beliefs."

I don't have to. The First Amendment of the Constitution guarantees that.

"Again, that New Testament voided the Old Testament is still funny."

Not my statement, and I in fact disagree. The New Testiment refined what was in the Old.

I have long believed as the Pope recently stated, that gays should be allowed civil unions, giving them all the legal rights of a married couple.

"Don't be a fence walker..."

If you are talking to me, show us where I fence walked.

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Echobravo

Mar-05-14 10:03 PM

Constitution is outdated. In the new America, old mindsets are outdated. America has become a melting pot for any and everything. Face it, there is a separation of church and state. STOP trying to make the STATE enforce your religious beliefs. LET ME BE CLEAR..I do not believe in same sex MARRIAGE, but I also do not believe in open judgement based on religion. Let those people answer to God and for the ones who judge, make sure your own house and life is in order. Again, that New Testament voided the Old Testament is still funny. If that was the case then why is the Ten Commandments still relevant in our lives today? The problem is people want to debate the Bible instead of living how it is written. Don't be a fence walker...

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Hagrid

Mar-05-14 7:59 PM

EB, the Civil Rights Act did not negate the First Amendment.

Our founding fathers did not make religious freedom the Tenth Amendment, or the Fifth. Not even the Second.

They made it the FIRST.

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hiredgeek

Mar-05-14 1:17 PM

"Sin is sin and homosexuality is a sin, there's no question about it." I have a question about it. The Bible also says that eating pig is a sin. Rsimpson, will you and your family be enjoying ham on Easter? Obviously liberal dems aren't the only ones picking and choosing which passages of the Bible count and which ones don't.

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Rsimpson43952

Mar-05-14 11:58 AM

Sin is sin and homosexuality is a sin, there's no question about it. There's a saying my grandma used to say; "You hang around with dogs long enough and you'll eventually get fleas." The sentiment is basically the same as in this bible verse: 1 Corinthians 15:33; Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals. As a Christian I choose not to associate with people of questionable morals as it is my right. I consider people who disregard the Bible solely for their own adult pleasure to be of questionable morals. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should. You can go out and be an adulterer but should you?

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Rsimpson43952

Mar-05-14 11:35 AM

@EB You've obviously not read the Bible in it's entirety to fully understand just what God's sacrifice meant. Once you've read the Bible I'll gladly debate with you but until then back to the issue at hand. I, as an American, have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason I see fit. As a Christian I wouldn't go to a bakery owned by a satanist. The only motive to do so would be to cause trouble and controversy which unfortunately homosexuals often do. If I knowingly put myself into that type of situation I'd only have myself to blame. This has nothing to do with racism against black people in the 60s but nice try. Religious freedom guarantees me the right to be a Christian. If I'm not comfortable serving someone who is openly living their life in direct conflict with my personal religious beliefs I have the right to refuse service. Who are you or anyone else to tell any Christian their beliefs are not important and to disregard their faith?

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RPG0340

Mar-05-14 11:00 AM

Another thing for you dems here. Keep cherry picking from a book you curse constantly, it just makes everyone respect you less.

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