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It’s time to turn back to God

December 8, 2013

To the editor: We are seeing communism and socialism spread like a deadly disease in our nation, from cities illegally banning guns, to cities illegally taking DNA samples, to forcing Americans to......

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Hagrid

Dec-16-13 11:01 AM

Wake UP America!

5th Grader Stripped Of 1st Place Ribbon In Speech Contest For Discussing Religion...

A 5th grade student won first place after he gave a speech about the history of people using religion to justify murder, but was stripped of his title the same day by a school official.

tampa.cbslocal(dot)com/2013/12/16/controversy-over-5th-graders-religion-speech/

Zachary Golob-Drake gave the speech to his class at the Patel Partnership School in hopes that he would be chosen to represent the school at the regional 4-H Tropicana Public Speech Contest, WFLA-TV reports. He was to deliver the speech Thursday morning to the entire 4th and 5th grades classes and two winners, one from each grade, were to be chosen to represent the school.

Golob-Drake said the assistant principal told him his speech was inappropriate before school was dismissed.

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Hagrid

Dec-12-13 10:59 AM

Franklin on government and Providence (God's Intervention):

“My dear friend, do not imagine that I am vain enough to ascribe our success [Revolution] to any superiority…If it had not been for the justice of our cause, and the consequent interposition of Providence, in which we had faith, we must have been ruined. If I had ever before been an atheist, I should now have been convinced of the being and government of a Deity!” —In a letter to William Strahan, August 19, 1784

“I must own I have so much faith in the general government of the world by Providence that I can hardly conceive a transaction of such momentous importance to the welfare of millions now existing, and to exist in the posterity of a great nation, should be suffered to pass without being in some degree influenced, guided, and governed by that omnipotent, omnipresent, and beneficent Ruler.” —On the impact of Independence on generations of Americans during the Constitutional Convention

Amen.

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Hagrid

Dec-12-13 10:32 AM

Let me tell you a story.

When I was young, my mother sent me to our church summer program to learn about religion. I was interested, not necessarily excited, as I would rather go swimming, play.

During the time, I constantly questioned our preacher. I constantly challanged him, questioning his teaching and statements. I was a little hard on him, but he always explained, with a smile.

Towards the end of the couple of weeks, I felt a little guilty about what I thought bordered on harrassment. I decided to tell him I was sorry. He laughed, and told me that, if he could not defend his faith, his faith ment nothing.

That changed me, and has kept with me in all I do.

Merry CHRISTmas, arthurs17 to you and yours. If you don't find God, I hope you at least find tolerance for those of us who have.

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Hagrid

Dec-12-13 10:23 AM

"No resentment. Believe what you want. Just don't tell others that they should believe."

Nothing wrong with that, any more than you constantly telling us that we should NOT believe. At least I have not called you names, and belittles your belief, correct?

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Hagrid

Dec-12-13 10:22 AM

"Like I stated before, I believe that everyone has the right to their own beliefs."

If true, you wouldn't call believers names, or belittle their faith, would you?

"Men are inherently flawed"

True. We are all sinners. You are in agreement with Christians on that.

"Rains and droughts are not brought on by god's choice but again by weather patterns."

Who creates the weather patterns?

"I hope I misread that. If not, maybe you refrain from writing a book on parenting."

I have let my children fail, and they learned from those failures. I don't know that I would have the faith of Abraham. My children have done fine. Both are well educated, each has multiple degrees, have great jobs, have never been in jail. I think my parenting did OK.

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Hagrid

Dec-12-13 10:18 AM

"I think the 1st amendment is pretty clear about keeping religion out of government and public schools"

The First Amendment is pretty clear. It says nothing about keeping religion out of pulic schools at all. If you can, show us. You can't force us to believe what isn't there.

"I said many of the founders were concerned about religion being intertwined with government."

You also gave the quote:

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Ben Franklin

You failed to give THIS Franklin quote:

“The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?”

Imagine, Franklin believed that God GOVERNS in the affairs of men.

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Hagrid

Dec-12-13 10:17 AM

""Our only hope is God, brothers and sisters of America." "Only through God do we have a chance." "The hope for the souls of men is Christ."

Here are 3 examples of where you advocate for the US to turn to Christ"

Wow. Now you are making stuff up. If you want to have an honest discussion about God, I'm glad to do so. But when you lie, that makes discussion impossible.

" the first amendment abolishes the establishment of religion."

Christianity has existed for over two thousand years. For you to claim that our government is trying to establish it is ludicris.

"People can believe what they want, the government just can't force them to believe in religion and/or a deity"

Please show us where government is forcing folks to believe in religion.

"People are free to exercise whatever religion they so far as their religious beliefs don't infringe on the rights of others."

Absolutely. I never proposed anything di

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arthurs17

Dec-12-13 1:20 AM

"For a non-believer, you seem to hold a lot of resentment to those of us who have God in our lives. Perhaps you should give it a try."

No resentment. Believe what you want. Just don't tell others that they should believe. If god is so majestic and all powerful, and he wants people to believe; I don't think he needs you writing in some obscure newspaper trying to convince people of his existence and how they should pray to him. He should be able to handle that all by himself.

Clearly we are never going to agree. Thanks for the debate. Happy holidays.

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arthurs17

Dec-12-13 1:10 AM

"For the same reason we don't fix all our children's problems. We want them to learn to make good decisions on their own. God takes that to an even higher level. He offers us eternal life for our efforts."

I'm confused. So you're saying that you would let your children put themselves in harm's way to teach a lesson even if you had the power to prevent it? You would stand by watching idly as your child get addicted to drugs or gets run over by a car?

I hope I misread that. If not, maybe you refrain from writing a book on parenting.

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arthurs17

Dec-12-13 1:04 AM

"Science has routinely disproven that which was believed to be divine at the time."

"Give us some examples."

SA1 12:18 So Samuel called unto the LORD; and the LORD sent thunder and rain that day: and all the people greatly feared the LORD and Samuel.

we now have a great understanding of how and why thunderstorms happen. They aren't sent by God, but rather formed by weather patterns and climate change.

Because of scientific discoveries, i.e. fossils, we now know that the earth is exponentially older than thought in biblical and preceding times.

Now Elijah the Tishbite, of Tishbe in Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the Lord, the God of Israel, lives, before whom I stand, there shall be neither dew nor rain these years, except by my word.”

Rains and droughts are not brought on by god's choice but again by weather patterns.

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arthurs17

Dec-12-13 12:29 AM

"Actually, man is a concept of God."

Well for being an omnipotent creator, he sure screwed the pooch on this one. Men are inherently flawed and continue to push the envelope on how evil they can be. How many wars have been waged in god's name? How many females are raped and murdered in god's name? How many gay people are discriminated against in god's name? How many black people have been discriminated against in god's name?

Great concept.

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arthurs17

Dec-12-13 12:25 AM

"Please show, in the quotes by our forefathers sow they did not believe in God. I can provide a lot more."

I never said all of the fore fathers didn't believe in god. Quit putting words in my mouth. I said many of the founders were concerned about religion being intertwined with government.

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arthurs17

Dec-12-13 12:18 AM

"Our only hope is God, brothers and sisters of America." "Only through God do we have a chance." "The hope for the souls of men is Christ."

Here are 3 examples of where you advocate for the US to turn to Christ and ignored the fact that the first amendment abolishes the establishment of religion. People can believe what they want, the government just can't force them to believe in religion and/or a deity. People are free to exercise whatever religion they so far as their religious beliefs don't infringe on the rights of others.

Like I stated before, I believe that everyone has the right to their own beliefs. Just don't talk with such certainty about something that is inherently uncertain.

I think the 1st amendment is pretty clear about keeping religion out of government and public schools, if you can't see that, I can't help you.

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Hagrid

Dec-11-13 7:08 PM

"Science has routinely disproven that which was believed to be divine at the time."

Give us some examples.

"Quit acting like you have some inside information. You don't."

Not sure what you mean. God is shared by the vast majority on this earth. Inside information? Absolutely.

"If there is a god, why wouldn't this magnificent creator just fix America's problems instead of sitting idly by watching more Americans become victims of greed and senseless violence?"

For the same reason we don't fix all our children's problems. We want them to learn to make good decisions on their own. God takes that to an even higher level. He offers us eternal life for our efforts.

For a non-believer, you seem to hold a lot of resentment to those of us who have God in our lives. Perhaps you should give it a try. What do you have to lose? The majority of our forefathers did. Most great men and women in history were believers.

Merry CHRISTmas, arthurs17.

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Hagrid

Dec-11-13 6:49 PM

"I didn't misinterpret anything, you are advocating that the US turn to God and Jesus."

OK. Show us. If you can't you will apologize, correct?

"I brought up the 1st amendment because you seem to be ignoring it."

Again, show us where I ignored it.

"Keep your religion out my schools and government."

Can you show me where the First Ammendment says that?

"Not all people believe in the fairy tale of heaven and there is nothing wrong with that. The founders knew that"

Not by the Declaration of Independance, the First Ammendment, and many of their writings.

Please show, in the quotes by our forefathers sow they did not believe in God. I can provide a lot more.

"God is a concept of man."

Actually, man is a concept of God.

"The only proof you have of God is a book written by men thousands of years ago"

Tell that to the Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Bahá'ís, ...

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arthurs17

Dec-11-13 4:05 PM

think freely and without parameters that I have to fit the truth into. No matter what science proves next, people like you will hide behind "god created the universe ****" and ignore the fact that maybe you aren't right. I have no idea whether or not there is a god, and neither do you. Quit acting like you have some inside information. You don't. If there is a god, why wouldn't this magnificent creator just fix America's problems instead of sitting idly by watching more Americans become victims of greed and senseless violence? That seems more like apathy to me.

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arthurs17

Dec-11-13 3:57 PM

I didn't misinterpret anything, you are advocating that the US turn to God and Jesus. What about all the muslims, hindus, sikhs, jews? Should they pray to Jesus for a better America? I brought up the 1st amendment because you seem to be ignoring it. I never said you shouldn't be able to believe what you want, just keep it to yourself. Not all people believe in the fairy tale of heaven and there is nothing wrong with that. The founders knew that and that's why they were adamant that religion should be between a man and his beliefs, not between a man and his government. Keep your religion out my schools and government. Period.

God is not science. God is a concept of man. The only proof you have of God is a book written by men thousands of years ago in a time where woman and slaves were beaten and raped for no good reason. Science has routinely disproven that which was believed to be divine at the time. I'm glad to be a practicing agnostic, it gives me the ability to

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Hagrid

Dec-11-13 3:48 PM

author17, why does religion scare you so much? Why can't you simply let others believe as they wish, without your condesending remarks? Why does it make you angry? Apparently there is something eating at your soul. We call that the Holy Spirit. Hindus call it Kundalini.

"Our founders knew religion could be perverse and tyrannical."

Can be. But God is given credit in the very first paragraph of our Declaration of Independance. If you were correct, that would not be there, anywhere. Our forefathers also made the First Ammendment to PROTECT religion, not to abolish it.

The bible is the most beautiful book ever written. Well worth quoting from.

"maybe you should give that a try"

I have. My career is science. Science and God go hand in hand.

Merry CHRISTmas to you and yours.

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Hagrid

Dec-11-13 3:22 PM

"How exactly did I misinterpret this?"

First: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

As far as I know, there is no law establishing a religion. If I am wrong, please show me.

Second: "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

This is the part that some folks have a problem with. There is an all out war against believers, especially Christians. Stop it.

I am sorry that God has not touched your life as He has mine. If you are not core, you are blessed.

"Also, if your god is so infinitely magnificent, why you were not able to spell infinite correctly?"

God did not make me a perfect speller. Last I checked, mispelling was not a sin.

"Get a grip, all the magnificence you describe is all explained through science"

God is science. He created a wonderous universe, with absolute physical laws. The more we learn about life and our universe, the more we can see His glorious works.

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arthurs17

Dec-11-13 2:03 PM

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

How exactly did I misinterpret this?

Our founders knew religion could be perverse and tyrannical. These are the reasons folks fled from Britain. What is sad is that a grown man still believes in fairy tales. You can quote the bible all you want, saying it over and over doesn't make it true. Just because you couldn't get past the brainwashing, don't fault others who can think for themselves.

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arthurs17

Dec-11-13 1:51 PM

Also, don't pretend that you know me. I am not this Core guy, whoever the*****that is. I don't need some fake sky man in my life to be happy. I happen to be doing just fine without him.

Also, if your god is so infinitely magnificent, why you were not able to spell infinite correctly? Get a grip, all the magnificence you describe is all explained through science, maybe you should give that a try, instead of believing in something that was written when thunderstorms were thought to be god's punishment to mankind.

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arthurs17

Dec-11-13 1:43 PM

I can find my own quotes too.

“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” ~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.” ~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Ben Franklin in Poor Richards' Almanac

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Hagrid

Dec-11-13 12:43 PM

One more....

“The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?” - Ben Franklin

Your misiterpretation of the First Ammendment is sad.

Merry CHRISTmas.

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Hagrid

Dec-11-13 12:41 PM

"Also, you think the founders wanted this be a christian nation? "

Not all, but they wanted a nation with God.

“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” ? George Washington

"The right to freedom being the gift of the Almighty...The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutions of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament. - Sameul Adams

As the Declaration of Independence was being signed in 1776, Sam Adams declared:

"We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come."

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Hagrid

Dec-11-13 12:36 PM

"What kind of creator lets a child be born into utter poverty and famine?"

The same Creator that allowed the testing of Job and Abraham.

This life is but a spec in eternity, core. We make of it what we will. Some do, some don't. There are rich and healthy that are miserable and perish. There are crippled and hungry that are gloriously happy.

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